tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post6667779760663091893..comments2024-01-24T15:46:14.823-05:00Comments on Covenant Theology: Elements Of Reformed Worship #6Puritan Ladhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-27846168572618798282023-10-13T04:46:35.257-04:002023-10-13T04:46:35.257-04:00This was a lovely blog posstThis was a lovely blog posstWe Love Dollhttps://welovedoll.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-53734694139692132952009-10-08T16:52:21.768-04:002009-10-08T16:52:21.768-04:00Puritan Lad,
I just re-read your post. You said: ...Puritan Lad,<br />I just re-read your post. You said: "Yes, there are human aspects to worship, but all of our worship should be Christ centered".<br /><br />I agree, "all our worship should be Christ-centered". I agree, it must never be "praise be to me". Rather it must always be "praise be to Him". That is indeed what worship should be, and it is in actuality the only thing that worship can be. <br /><br />So if this is true, as I am sure you will agree, since you wrote the words that I quoted, then you need to address the fact that not all singing in church is "worship". At least some of the songs need to be man-centered. When Paul says that songs in church are a form of "speaking to ourselves" (Eph. 5:19, and a form of "teaching and admonishing one another"(Col. 3: 16). Then these forms of music are clearly not intended for "worship". <br /><br />Our job is always to handle the word of God truthfully, Biblically, spiritually, morally and realistically. So, what would be nice to see, while you are discussing music in church, is a lesson on the singing and music which is not intended as "worship"...the non-worshipful kind of music that is still supposed to be a part of our singing as well. It is intended for edification instead. It is directed to men and not to God. It is Scriptural and Biblical, but it is not "worship". Perhaps you could say something about this type of church music also, instead of just emphasizing the "worship" type of music. Some questions you might want to cover would be: How we should implement it? What sort of man-centered words it should contain? How it can be both beneficial to man and pleasing to God at the same time? How many or how often of the man-centered songs be sung? Then you might want to give some examples of these types of songs. I know that you won't be using "I have decided to follow Jesus", because you consider it illiterate, but may I suggest: <br /><br />A pilgrim was "I" and a wandring <br />In the cold night of sin "I" did roam<br />When Jesus the kind shepherd found "me"<br />And now "I" am on "my" way home.<br /><br />Or how about? <br /><br />And He walks with "me"<br />And He talks with "me",<br />And He tells "me" "I" am His own<br />And the joy "we" share as "we" tarry there,<br />None other has ever known.<br /><br />Or maybe?<br /><br />What can wash away "my" Sin?<br />Nothing but the blood of Jesus.<br />What can make "me" whole again?<br />Nothing but the blood of Jesus.<br /><br />I'm sure that you can find a whole bunch of man-centered non-worship songs to include in your lesson. I think this would present the truth more as it really is, rather than emphasizing only "worship" songs. Let's learn to use and sing the good man-centered songs also. Using Pauls words to only teach "worship" songs is really a mis-use of his doctrine. A half truth is a whole lie.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11736714184090436068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-22096493209446641842009-10-07T22:03:06.560-04:002009-10-07T22:03:06.560-04:00Is "Speaking to yourself" Christ-centere...Is "Speaking to yourself" Christ-centered? (Eph.5:19) Is "teaching and admonishing one another" Christ-centered? (Col.3: 16). Both these man-centered activities are to be conveyed by our church music. Both passages are talking about singing songs in church. What passage says that we are not supposed to be man-centered at least some of the time in our singing? Since singing in church is done by men and not angels, I suggest we start clipping our imaginary wings, and start singing to "ourselves" and "to one another" like Paul says.Earlhttp://revearljackson.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-84938607398417795502009-10-07T21:49:52.485-04:002009-10-07T21:49:52.485-04:00Earl,
What do you think of the lyrics to the firs...Earl,<br /><br />What do you think of the lyrics to the first song I listed? I know that it is an extreme example, but it'll make my point more obvious.<br /><br />Christianity isn't "I have decided to follow Jesus" (praise be to be), but rather, as Moses sang, "The Lord has become my salvation" (Praise be to Him). That is the difference.<br /><br />Yes, there are human aspects to worship, but all of our worshio should be Christ centered.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-28152615366156127022009-10-07T21:32:01.469-04:002009-10-07T21:32:01.469-04:00I agree with Christian Praise about the archaic wo...I agree with Christian Praise about the archaic words. And I also agree that God-centered and Christ-honoring words are important, but I do not agree that the scriptures eliminates songs that concern "us" and our relationship to God. The Bible says "speaking to yourselves in Psalms Hymns and spiritual songs" (Eph. 5; 19). The second part of the verse "singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord", does not eliminate or do away with the first part of the verse "speaking unto yourselves". Speaking to yourself is not primarily a Christo-centric or God-centered activity. It concerns "Me" just as much, or maybe even more, than it concerns Him. When I am doing that, I can still be singing and making melody in my heart to the Lord. So to arbitrarily say that everything self-centered or man-centered should be eliminated is not quite true. It sounds nice, and it pretends to be pious to sing only God-centered songs in church, but the fact is that it is not the whole truth. If we read the Psalms, which are held out as the perfect Biblical model for church singing, we have to deal with Psalm 51 and many other songs which from David's perspective were "songs about me". Create in "me" a clean heart. Take not Thy Holy Spirit from "me". Cast "me" not away from your presence. Restore unto "me" the joy of my salvation. <br /><br />I fail to see how we can throw out man-centered aspects of worship, when the Bible does not do this. We are real people, with real struggles, singing to a real God, about all sorts of real things that concern us. And none of us have wings to fly above our own humanity when we are in church. Don't misunderstand, I love God honoring lyrics with depth of meaning. I think they should be included in our song selections. But I see nothing unbiblical, or immoral about real people singing songs about their real struggles and relationship to God. I think it is good to "speak to yourselves" in singing, just like Paul says. <br /><br />I'm afraid that in our reformed churches we have become pious gas bags, and have robbed the relevance out of singing. That in my opinion, is just as wrong as condemning someone as a theological illiterate who sings: "I have decided to follow Jesus". Please tell me why a person is a theological illiterate if he sings "I have decided to follow Jesus"? I happen to think that song states a Biblical and Theological truth from a healthy man-centered way of speaking to yourself in spiritual songs. It may not fit in with our pious gas bag reformational traditions, but so what? It expresses Paul's sentiments perfectly "speaking to yourselves". I'd like someone to show me why we should condemn this wonderfully simple Christian song? "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ"2Cor. 11:3. Simplicity in singing is good. I think it's wrong to call someone an illiterate just because they are not a pious gas bag.Earlhttp://revearljackson.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-57961921822636800382009-10-07T21:27:38.213-04:002009-10-07T21:27:38.213-04:00Right On CP. I'm all for updating words into ...Right On CP. I'm all for updating words into modern language as much as possible. There are a few good modern songs, but unfortunately far too many are as you described, about ourselves.<br /><br />I simply used these two to make my point, but I could have easily chosen a newer hymn with easier language.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34749839.post-17382605493772688802009-10-07T18:53:14.480-04:002009-10-07T18:53:14.480-04:00Although I have to agree that "A Mighty Fortr...Although I have to agree that "A Mighty Fortress is our God" is a much better choice compared to the first worship chorus as you mentioned, I think that we have to be careful not to rely too heavily on the old hymns. The wording of this hymn in particular is very difficult for modern people to understand. They won't know what they are singing about...what's a bulwark...what does "shall fell him" mean...I know what they mean, but many people will not know what this archaic language is. What we need is to pray for God to raise up songwriters who will focus on the message of the cross and salvation, righteousness, etc. Far too many people are getting caught up in singing about themselves and their relationship to God rather than the great works that God has done. We need to forget about ourselves and spread the message through our songs of Gods omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence in our lives and the lives of the world who are lost and need a Savior.Christian Praisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08883109683297496532noreply@blogger.com