Women are highly esteemed before the Lord, and have very important roles in both the home and ministry. However, there is no such thing as egalitarianism in either the home (Ephesians 5:22-24) or the church (1 Timothy 2:12).
Note well, however, that the Bible gives no such limitations regarding civil government, as Deborah (Judges 4-5) bears this out. (Say it with me – Sarah 2012!!!). But with the home and the church, the Bible is quite clear.
Regarding 1 Timothy 2:12, let’s suppose, just for a second, the Paul had actually meant that he does "not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man", and that "she is to remain quiet". How else could he have expressed that sentiment any clearer than he did here?
Egalitarianism is a theology of rebellion and unbelief.
10 comments:
I agree with your comments regarding egalitarianism and Pauls instruction.
I question though your civil g'ment statement. It seems to me that if a married woman is in a leadership role, especially Governor or Pres., then that would at least compromise her role in the home. How is she to submit to her husband and manage her household with such a responsibility to her job?
And also, I see the example of Deborah as confirmation of the shame that we men bring on ourselves when we abdicate our role as leaders. The Lord certainly can and does place women in leadership positions but isn't it more the case of Him showing us our need to step up to the plate?
This is the first time I've seen this site and look forward to reading more in the future.
Thanks,
Rusty
Thanks Rusty,
I guess the question we need to consider is whether or not it is possible for a woman to be the head of a civil government without compromising her role in the home or the church. I do think it is possible, though there are dangers that you are rightly concerned over. If a woman were to become president, she would still be subservient to her husband at home, as well as her elders in her church.
But while such temptations do exist, we must not legislate where the Bible does not legislate, and I can find no gender requirements for civil leaders in Scripture.
Taking another angle on this. If a woman is committed to her role as wife and mother as revealed in Scripture, is it even possible for her to progress through the process of becoming a Governor or President?
This is an interesting topic but I think what is more important is how the Church today views womens roles in the church and home. I believe egalitarianism is born out of good ole radical feminism and has caused great harm to the Church. I believe that the leaders of the church have failed in holding and fighting for the sufficiency of Scripture because of, among other things, a fear of not being "relevant" to the culture.
Anyway, thanks for putting these challenging topics up for discussion and hopefully, edifying and redemptive things will come from your discussions.
Rusty
"If a woman is committed to her role as wife and mother as revealed in Scripture, is it even possible for her to progress through the process of becoming a Governor or President?"
That's the question that has to be answered. What would be your position if the woman can do this?
What is she is single?
While having a woman president may or may not be ideal, I don't see it to be unbiblical, nor does is necessarily compromise who other roles.
A few years ago, I was talking with a friend about women preaching and he said the reason that he was against it was because one week out of every month they'd be sending us all to hell. I thought it was funny but it has nothing to do with this conversation...
Anyway, to finish this topic, I'd mostly agree with you that having a woman Pres. would not be ideal but I don't know if I could make a case from Scripture that it would be unbiblical. I do have friends, however, that feel strongly that it would be unbiblical.
Thanks for your dialogue and I'll continue to pray that the church, especially here in the US, will repent of our egalitarianism and rebellion against the sufficiency of Scripture and men will take their place as the spiritual leaders in the home and the church.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
Rusty
Yeah,
Because men *never* lose their tempers, loose control over their emotions, or let their emotions influence their decisions. Men *never* let their hormones rule their head....(rolls eyes)
Or....
you can wander into any bar, boardroom, or, unfortunatley, some churches and see plenty of men giving into their emotions and letting them influence their decisions. Letting their testosterone rule them. The only difference is that their hormones and their immaturity would be constant.
IMmaturity is not limited to gender. A mature woman learns to govern her emotions just as a mature, wise man controls his.
That scripture ordains roles of woman has nothing to do with their competence or hormones...
Respectfully
Amy,
Please accept my apology for the comment. It was inappropriate and I posted it against my better judgement knowing that it may offend someone.
I totally agree with your points.
Please don't let my post's imply that I think women have any less value or dignity than men. Both are created in God's image and both will be reigning with Him in heaven.
If you go back to my earlier comments, you'll see that I'm critical of men, myself included, for abdicating and failing in our God ordained roles that we will be held accountable for.
Again, please accept my apology.
Rusty
i appreciate you apology and accept it wholeheartedly. I understand that there wre problems in leadership from both genders.
This is born from much frustration on my part, being a single woman in her thirties with very little on the horizon of the "typical" role of a woman in the church (believe me, I'm not rejecting marriage....far from it). To be honest, I feel quite left out of the church. Where do I belong? I have no husband to have a *voice* in the church. But most people would say that I still could not be as vocal. Most women have their husbands to be their voice. My job and profession is my joy....I love teaching. I have a Master's. I probably have more in common with most men in my church and yet I don't feel welcomed by them talking about the serious stuff....and most women are unfortunately not as concerned with it. Most women my age are preoccupied with their husbands and children.
What use have I in being in the women's sunday school when they talk about marriage and children? And yet I can't teach the high schoolers (believe me, I asked in one PCA church that knew me well) even though I teach high school as a profession.
It's frustrating. And I have seen at least four churches desert their singles ministries to concentrate on their other ministries and many singles feel like there is no place for them.
I really do feel that much of what is out there now concerning the roles of men and women is tainted because it is a *response* to the culture.
Sorry, just try to understand it from one woman't perspective. God's plan for me requires that I be the one in control of my life. I must have the voice. If there needs to be something done on my house, I do it, or at least coordinate who's doing it.
I am the leader of my little household. Becuase, if I am not....then who is?
And this always makes me wonder....what do people really mean when they mean submit? If I marry, do I lose my voice? Will I suddenly not have that same level of contribution to life's decisions? That word, submit, is so nebulous, I have yet to hear a good working definition of it's applications in a relationship.
Amy,
Submitting to your future husband does not mean that you will "lose your voice". In fact, just the opposite. A godly husband will appreciate hearing your voice as he is not a dictator. In turn, he will love you for it, just as Christ loved the church, which should have a louder voice than it does today.
You're right, and I agree....sometimes, though, in the fervor of renouncing the current times, it seems that we hear submit, submit, submit....and we lose the forest....
Thanks, though
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